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Sleuth Talk

Is there sense still playing? - detective vs bots ...

Azar
Azar

Hi,
Today I have first doubts - should I play or should I stop ... Why?

I have had a plenty of time today, so I was starting playing ...

About 4AM server time (high noon Central European Time) I checked AIU's standing - 126570 and KKK's standing - 73924). After solving 3RH cases I had extra 24 points - it took me about 45 minutes (quite fast, but of course it could be done a little faster). Next I checked KKK standing - 322 points more - it means 46 SH cases - average 1SH case per minute. After a few more minutes L.D Wallen solved next 23 cases. In sum L.D. Wallen solved in less than 2 hours 59 SH cases.

Any comments?

Are we human or robot?

Ben could You humanize our game? What is the sense playing, when I play half of a day and finish about 15 cases, so bots do 60 cases in 2 hours ....

Are we still feeling spirit of competition?

Azar

Replies
L.D. Wallen
L.D. Wallen

Just read Cinderella's post: I love what you wrote (and no I didn't write Cinderella's post).

Night Owl
Night Owl

Personally i enjoy the game for what it is...a game :)

I've not cheated by designing bots or spreadsheets, and now that the 1st PE pattern has been eradicated.......fine, it makes the game more challenging. Most everyone knew about it in the first place so it was hardly an advantage, which showed with the even spread of players scores.

I've worked VERY hard to get where i am, competed in most of the TH's that AIU have got......and stayed up well into the early hours to ensure we got those treasures too along with many members both ex and current in AIU.

Even with limited time, work committments etc.. i still play as often as i can. What irks me the most is the blatant screaming about competition and how unfair it is to have certain players at the top all the time.
We are at the top because we worked for it........damned hard too.

If a robot can get to the top, well hurray for you, but don't expect me to be impressed by it. It's the height of laziness to use a bot to win casess and increase your score. So what if it takes skill to create a bot......Ben created an entertaining and challenging game in itself. If you have become bored and only want to reach the top at everyone else's expense and hard work.....carry on. And before anyone gets their knickers in a twist......I've not directly named anyone they know who they are without me having to state names.

Okay that said, let the game continue with those that want to play properly :)

Jojo
Jojo

I have yet to find an online game that allows or encourages the use of bot/robot/script/automated gameplay. If you are playing the game by... not playing the game, then what is the point in playing? There is no fun, enjoyment, or relaxation in that. All that that can be called is an obsessive need for recognition. And with that recognition, you will find little respect from people who actually put hard work into playing the game.

Games were meant to be played by people, not programs.

Veronicas Veil
Veronicas Veil

One thing that I will say is that bilbot stated that he was using a bot. No one else stated that they had been cheating also.

Also last time I was really upset about all the the newbie boosting going on a certain person called me something like a sissie crybaby who needs to grow up. That post was immediately deleted. Well now I say to that person, you are being a sissie crybaby, grow up.

Rose Catherine
Rose Catherine

People. Seriously. Listen to yourselves, please?

@ milmot/bilbot/L.D. Wallen
What happens when the lighter runs out of fluid? People still use flint to start fires. And the whole copy and paste deal? Last I checked this is game played on the computer, not a typewriter. Of course people can copy and paste. That doesn't take a genius. And as far as spreadsheets and stuff? I never use them. i don't write stuff down, either. I use what God gave me up top to solve the cases. I also put my selective memory into use. Did I know about the first PE matching? Yes. Did I make sure I had three stars on every case? Yes. Or four, or five. One time I managed to get 10 stars on one case, actually. And as for chess? It isn't much fun playing against the computer. When you play chess, against a real person, it is so much more interesting, you see their expressions, their body language, and they don't ever play the same game twice. I spent all fours years of high school on the chess team, the #1 chess team in my state. I was also on chess team in college. The chess bot has nothing to do with the sleuth bot.

@ Cinderella/Veronicas Veil
If I remember correctly, you said, "What does this game mean to anyone anymore? Nothing really." If the game means "nothing" to you, why do you still play? And in saying no one else has said that they have cheated other than bilbot, you never said if you did or not. So, have you cheated? Let's go down the cheating list for me: I use the tab key, after I have searched the room without it twice. I have only really needed it twice. Do I have multiple detectives? Yes. Do I use my other detectives? not so much. Yes, I am also Catherine Rose, but I diliked her, so I started over. And yes, I also am Cimorene Parker, but only because I was given control of her in the ZO break-up. There are a few others, that I use for the RP stage, as well. Oh, my goodness. I am such a horrible person, I cheated. Shame on me.

@ Jojo
You are a voice of reason. :)

@ Night Owl
You are a

Rose Catherine
Rose Catherine

(continued)

@ Night Owl
You are an awesome player. Congrats on reaching the 2 million mark!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, I think that's all I have to say for now. I would rather not get into a brawl on the boards, so if you take exception to what I just said, please feel free to smail me or else say something not too too brawl inducing here. We don't want to make more work for the mods, after all!

~Rose Catherine

L.D. Wallen
L.D. Wallen

@Jojo:
Don't get me wrong: I don't seek recognition with a bot.

I earned my recognition as Milmot. I overtook Smarty to be top 1. I was the first ever millionaire, then first to reach 2 Mexp, then I solved the first RH game. No bot at this time, so I do know what playing the almost naked way means (1st PE rule + notepad). I didn't feel any interest at playing any longer at the top for too long. So Milmot committed suicide, to leave the place for other players. I'm glad, that Smarty took my place.

I earned my recognition as Bilbot. I climbed up to 400,000 exp with no extra skill and no help besides my brain and the PE rule. No one even dares to take the challenge, besides a few true competitors. Now that the PE rule is gone, somebody will have to launch another challenge.

I earn my recognition by taking the time to answer many questions in the forums (check how many posts milmot/bilbot/ LD wrote and compare to Azar or other players in this thread). I always try to give a precise and true information, not to mislead any player.

I have the utmost respect for *all* SoM's players but a few. That's why I make no mystery I'm using a bot. It is no bragging as some may feel. It is honesty. I'm not sure everybody is as honest, hence Cinderella getting a bit mad. Both of us don't like hypocrites.

I didn't brag about LD making top ranks. All the people PMing her to ask what was happening, got the true answer: "I'm testing a new version of my bot and it is amazingly efficient". Azar put the subject on the table with this thread. He used methods or tools, that most will considerer "cheating". But he felt cheated, because he found a better "cheater". Any player with a real sense of competition would have relaunch the fighting spirit: bot or not bot, you can't play more than 30 games a day per subscriber. No, he chose a public attack. If you feel, as a moderator, it is a good thing to do, say so.

P.S. It may hard to understand or feel strange, but you can have as much fun at creating a bot to play a game as at playing a game yourself. In some wa

L.D. Wallen
L.D. Wallen

(@jojo continuation)
P.S. It may hard to understand or feel strange, but you can have as much fun at creating a bot to play a game as at playing a game yourself. In some ways, it is like living your own life and raising your child(ren).

@Rose Catherine
1 - A bit of history:
I discovered the "first PE rules" rule back in July, while at Metro. I don't know, whether I was the first one or not, and that is not my point. I shared this information with other Metroers and we all agree that we should disclosed it only on demand, not to ruin part of the fun for players.

When I created KKK, most KKKers ask to learn the rule. And they propagate the information to other agencies. So there is a great chance that you are where you are because of me.

2 - Cinderella is a bit mad, because she, as I do, doesn't like hypocrites.

For instance, someone scorned tab keying, while secretly using a tool, which discloses all objects.

3 - Chess playing

a) My point was not whether it is fun or not to play chess against a computer. My point was although the best chess player is now a computer (in fact a software) doesn't mean that humans lost all interests in playing chess. Humans are still playing chess and they dream to beat that damned machine.

b) I like to play against bots/computers. When I lose, I think, that I have progress to make and I give kudos to the designer. And vice-versa. Besides a bot is available 24h a day and is always in the mood to play. And it doesn't cheat (now that you are telling me...)

c) Where is the human part of SoM? You play cases alone with a computer, not against another human.

If you mean climbing the top 30 ladder, than you "cheated" people who didn't know the 1st PE rule. Does it make you a bad player? I don't think so. On the contrary, I think, that *not* noticing the first PE rule means a not too observant player (which is kind of sad for a detective) and *not* using it when you know it, means either you are a saint (I'm not), or you don't tell the truth.

4 - It is interesting to see how now most players make far

L.D. Wallen
L.D. Wallen

I'm cursed. Let me finish my last paragraph please :)

4 - It is interesting to see how now most players make far less points a day that before Ben fixed things. My fear is, that the game is now too complex or takes too long to play.

Detective Joseph Chen
Detective Joseph Chen

Hi All,

I've read all the previous posts and decided to post a reply only on LD's no 4:

4 - It is interesting to see how now most players make far less points a day that before Ben fixed things. My fear is, that the game is now too complex or takes too long to play.

For me, I play during working hours, so its either I'm logged on the WHOLE day while doing office work (hence no cases solved) or I'm logged on the WHOLE day but have most of my time spent on solving cases. The cases indeed has gotten harder to solve and no matter how Ben decides to change the game, there will still be players here to play it. At least I will play as subscribe player until my current gift subscription ends, thanks to Miinck. ^_^

Note: Miinck gave me 1 yr gift subscription, does that mean if I give her harder cases to do or accuse, means I'm cheating? If yes, then I admit, I'm cheating for giving all my members harder cases to do.

Ben can also easily solve this by limiting players to only play a certain level case difficulty only after the player unlock the level case & any case stored in case files can only be accuse by the person who store it in.

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