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Is there sense still playing? - detective vs bots ...

Azar
Azar

Hi,
Today I have first doubts - should I play or should I stop ... Why?

I have had a plenty of time today, so I was starting playing ...

About 4AM server time (high noon Central European Time) I checked AIU's standing - 126570 and KKK's standing - 73924). After solving 3RH cases I had extra 24 points - it took me about 45 minutes (quite fast, but of course it could be done a little faster). Next I checked KKK standing - 322 points more - it means 46 SH cases - average 1SH case per minute. After a few more minutes L.D Wallen solved next 23 cases. In sum L.D. Wallen solved in less than 2 hours 59 SH cases.

Any comments?

Are we human or robot?

Ben could You humanize our game? What is the sense playing, when I play half of a day and finish about 15 cases, so bots do 60 cases in 2 hours ....

Are we still feeling spirit of competition?

Azar

Replies
Dr Wátson
Dr Wátson

Unfortunately Cinders has given Bilbot a couple of newly subscribed accounts to play with. Partially my fault that by accepting her resigning.

I dread the day when I start to get anti-bot popups asking me to enter the letters and numbers I read in the graphic to continue but unfortunately I think it is needed.

I have to agree with you on this Azar, I don't want to compete with a machine - and it places an unnecessary load on the server.

MERCEY LESS
MERCEY LESS

Oh heck. And to think I was concerned about newbie boosting from one Highly Experienced Human detective to another not so experienced Human detective.

I agree with Azar and Dr. Watson as well. Not every detective that plays this game may have competition on their minds but for those of us that do, it sure would be nice to know we stand a fair chance.

Competition always keeps things exciting and interesting. I just don't understand if an agency wants to compete against the rest of us, why can't the Humans in the agency do it themselves. And if the purpose of all of this is not to compete with the rest of us, could the testing maybe be taken elsewhere.

AIU is the top agency right now because all of the members worked very hard to get there. It gives the rest of us a goal to strive for. I personally have no desire to compete against a machine either because I know I am not better than a machine and don't believe I ever will be.

L.D. Wallen
L.D. Wallen

This milmot/bilbot/L.D. Wallen

Humanity evolved: human being used to start a fire with rocks, now we use a lighter.

I am a tool maker. When I find an activity not mind boggling enough, I can refrain from doing a very mind boggling activity: create a tool to handle the first activity. The way humans are, that is the way we will always be.

For Som, I started using a piece of paper and a pencil. Then to spare some tree, I use Notepad. I skipped the spreadsheet phase to create my first bot: very crude and not too efficient.

So I got back to the basics with the bilbot challenge.

The bilbot challenge being a huge success (no one even dares to follow my steps), I looked for new challenges. And I started the Sleuthbot v2, based on my first bot and Bilbot's experience.

Sleuthbot v2 performances are beyond my wildest expectations. But is no more, no less that a tool *I* designed and *I* crafted to help me solve cases (the same way as you can create a spreadsheet to help you).

No, it doesn't put extra load the server (actually it uses less server resources because it optimizes its moves).

Yes a bot is a machine. but its creator: not. It is just a good programmer. So you are not competing against a machine but me, helped with good tools (but who would play SoM without some kind of helping tools)

I understand that it is hard for you to admit that I am a better opponent. That is why I'm bringing KKK to new high.

Feel free to create your own bot: bot war will be fun.

P.S. I'll probably give back some of the my SoM's experience to the community in the form of a SoM Detective on line helper (think of it as an advanced case file). Please tell me (Smail LD) what you'd like to see in this tool. If I get enough feedback, I'll start a thread on this subject.

Droid
Droid

One case with your bot may be less load on the server than one case by a human but if your bot does 10 cases in the time it takes a human to do one surely that's more work for it?

L.D. Wallen
L.D. Wallen

Absolutely not : overload means thousands in a second for a very low end server. My bot needs 120 seconds (2 mn) to solve a case in less than a hundred server calls. One server call every second: this is peanuts for today's hardware.

Besides, bot or humans, the resources for playing a case are quite the same. "Quite" because, as I wrote, my bot consumes less resources (e.g. it won't visit a suspect again because it forgot it had exhausted all questions as I do) and stays connected a shorter time (as it solves cases at a faster rate).

Launching thousands of bots against the server at the same time would certainly kill any server. But I play only one detective at a time and during US off peak hours (not to spare the server, there is no need, but because I live in Europe).

Melody Anne
Melody Anne

I don't see how you can argue that playing with a bot is the same as a human since a human designed it, I call B S!
If you can't get ahead without a bot, or you are bored playing..... I think even a human can figure out what should be done next....

L.D. Wallen
L.D. Wallen

@Azar
If you think that bots are not fair, where do you put the limit?

A person not knowing how to use a spreadsheet would find that "spreadsheeting" is in fact "spreadcheating".

A person, knowing how to use a spreadsheet (and write macros), would find cheating creating a bot (although you can create a bot with macros, but I don't recommend it).

To create my bot, I only use a free tool (autoIt) and my brain: you are welcome to do the same (i.e. use AutoIt not my brain). But it is a very hard work to create a bot.

What is better? hard work creating a tool to make hard work easier, or hard work doing things that a tool could make easier?

AIU has a real advantage: its age, which means an advance of 52,000 fame points. As I don't know, yet, any way to travel to the past, I used my brain to find a way to overcome this 52k advantage. At KKK's current speed (700 points a day), you have less 75 days left to raise your fighting spirit again instead of pointing fingers.

@Mercey
Although IBM's Deep Blue defeated Kasparov in 1997, human beings still enjoy playing chess.

@All
If you mean talking about fairness, put everything on the table.

- most of us used the defunct "first PE rules", which became "the last PE rules" for a while. This makes the game way easier and allow us to reach high grounds quite easily (I (ab)use this rule playing Bilbot).

- Droid, I can point finger too, has a tool thats list the objects in a house (I use another one, which is a free Firefox addon, available to all). Fair, not fair?

I think that, because so many rules have changed since March, 2008, and, for the sake of an unbiased competition, we should all start anew. I'll
keep my bot but you are free to ignore it.

Isaac Mendez
Isaac Mendez

WOW what a story! I agree with every one except L.D.
He leaves us no option... '' KKK is disqualified''.
And we should ignore its excistance, and let no else try to even think of using a bot. or this game will die.

end of line.

Azar
Azar

The last Your sentence is correct - we are free to ignore You.

So it is my proposal - any human being should ignore any Bilbot/Milmot/L.D.Wallen/KKK activities. Ostracism is the best way.

I prefer to talk with other people (even though English is not my mother tongue and I make many mistakes) and, I think, almost all of us want to talk with other people than machines ...

Ben - we are waiting for Your activity. Please describe us Your roadmap - what do You want to do with bots?

Azar
Azar

Of course my above post was directly related to L.D.Wallen's post.

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